Recently, while listening to the mid-week Torah study on September 1, 2010, I saw some comments that were made during the study that bring into question the Messianic Movement and the motivation behind those who are part of the Messinaic Movement. The topic is on the Torah, Messianics, and the Christian church. I posted a portion of the conversation (shown below) so that you could see what is being typed into the chatroom. <\/p>\n
[20:19:22] inSpeak: <\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/strong>MrKit has joined the room<\/span><\/strong> The question is raised about the relationship\/responsibility a person has with regards to those who say that “The Torah is done away with.” Another question is asked whether a baptist or a non-messianic is to be considered our brothers and sisters in Yeshua. Based upon the conversation, others have as difficult a time understanding ones relationship with others who place their faith in Yeshua by asking whether there is a difference between the “Greek Jesus” and the “Hebrew Yeshua” and whether they are different people? Arguements are made to justify the position of observing the Torah by abstracting a parallel between the Christian church on the isues of (i) divorce, (ii) baptism (imersion or no imersion), and (iii) whether to work on sunday or not. <\/p>\n Over the years, these questions and more have been raised time and time again. The attitude here is one of pride, pride on the obserbance of the Torah over against those who do not observe the Torah. Yeshua said:<\/p>\n John 13:34-35<\/em><\/span><\/strong> I have to ask this question with respect to what Yeshua taught us concerning this conversation. Where is the love?<\/strong> Do you see the attitude of pride and resentment towards Christian believers? I certainly do and I am ashamed to say that I am a Messianic believer along side of the people who have this kind of attitude. <\/p>\n We can teach at length what the scriptures say, from the Hebrew and Greek texts and provide historical along with logical reasons why the Torah is God’s way of living for believers but we can not force it upon those who believe the Torah is passed away because of Yeshua. I believe everyone who believes by faith in Yeshua alone for their salvation is saved by His blood and are also my brother or my sister. There is no doubt with respect to what the Scriptures state about this fact. Observing the Torah does not save one from their sins because the Torah apart from Yeshua is a road that leads to hell. The central problem here is that Messianic congregations have missed the mark of the Torah. All of the Torah points to Yeshua the Messiah and yet Yeshua has taken second place in most Messianic congregations. The Torah is elevated over top of the teachings of Yeshua and what is worse, Rabbinic interpretation and the Talmud are heralded as important aspects for our faith as messianics. This placing of Yeshua in second place is the reason why the Messianic congregations show no growth. In addition to that, in the last 4 years of my involvement in the Messianic Movement I have never once heard of one soul that was saved. I have never heard a praise report on one person placing their faith in Yeshua for their salvation, out of a messianic congregation. This is a serious issue with the Messianic movement. It appears that the return to the Torah is not accompanied by a fire and love for Yeshua, our neighbors, and the salvation of the lost soul. <\/p>\n So, what is our responsibility\/relationship to those who say the Torah is passed away? Our responsibility is to love them as Yeshua has loved us and stop the pride and arogance that is so prevalent amongst Messianic believers. It is time to wake up! Yeshua needs to take first place in our hearts and lives. If Yeshua isnt in first place something is seriously wrong and it is time to re-evaluate your faith, your salvation, and all that you believe according to the Scriptures.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" \t\t\t\tRecently, while listening to the mid-week Torah study on September 1, 2010, I saw some comments that were made during the study that bring into question the Messianic Movement and the motivation behind those who are part of the Messinaic Move…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-1190","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","6":"category-random-thoughts"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1190","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1190"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1190\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1190"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1190"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.matsati.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1190"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
[20:20:31] RebAvner: <\/span><\/strong>Shalom Kit – This is a LIVE teaching by MRav Yosef Boleware of Cong. Beit Lechem in Jackson, Mississippi<\/span>
[20:21:04] MrKit: <\/span><\/strong>is this a member congregation?<\/strong><\/span>
[20:21:20] RebAvner: <\/span><\/strong>yes<\/span>
[20:21:25] MrKit: <\/span><\/strong>ok<\/strong><\/span>
[20:21:29] RebAvner: <\/span><\/strong>member of CTOMC<\/span>
[20:21:56] MrKit: <\/span><\/strong>obviously that is what I meant by the question.<\/strong><\/span>
[20:22:29] RebAvner: <\/span><\/strong>in fact, Rav Yosef is on the CTOMC Beit Din<\/span>
[20:23:13] MrKit: <\/span><\/strong>good. I like to know a little about the teachers I hear.<\/strong><\/span>
[20:23:39] RebAvner: <\/span><\/strong>If you have any questions, type them in the text area and Rav Yosef will answer you<\/span>
[20:30:36] inSpeak: <\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/strong>sasa88 has joined the room<\/span><\/strong>
[20:30:44] inSpeak: <\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/strong>sasa88 has left the room<\/span><\/strong>
[20:36:08] MrKit: <\/span><\/strong>What is our responsibility\/relationship to be with those who claim to be believers and yet teach that Torah is done away with?<\/strong><\/span>
[20:39:42] Cheri_4Yeshua: <\/span><\/strong>sometimes going to their “things” will get them to Torah, the Lord’s modim<\/strong><\/span>
[20:40:07] MrKit: <\/span><\/strong>Is the Baptist my “brother\/” is the non-Messianic my “brother\/” that’s what I mean.<\/strong><\/span>
[20:42:54] Messiah_msgr: <\/span><\/strong>is there a difference between the greek Jesus and Hebrew Yeshua? Are they different people?<\/strong><\/em><\/span>
[20:43:22] MrKit: <\/span><\/strong>2<\/strong><\/span>
[20:43:25] Messiah_msgr: <\/span><\/strong>i know the origins of “Jesus” name vs Yeshua<\/strong><\/em><\/span>
[20:46:00] Cheri_4Yeshua: <\/span><\/strong>yet these very same christians who thinl Torah is “working” for salvation, go absolutely crazy over whether women should or should not teach, the divorce issue, whether to immerse or mot to immerse, etc, all those things are also “works”….???<\/strong><\/span>
[20:46:25] Messiah_msgr: <\/span><\/strong>and working on Sunday, the Lord’s Day<\/strong><\/em><\/span>
[20:46:46] Cheri_4Yeshua: <\/span><\/strong>yet we get called Judaiers, jew-wannabes, and those are the nice names lol<\/strong><\/span>
[20:47:33] Cheri_4Yeshua: <\/span><\/strong>that’s right<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n
\n
13:34 ‘A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 13:35 ‘By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.’ (NASB)<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n